Pregnancy and Birthing Stories Series Part 5

Yá’á’tééh! For the fifth installment of our birthing series, co-hosts DeeDee James and Lexa Ingram interview Sierra Sanchez, a young Coeur D'Alene woman, mother, doula, and peer lactation counselor will be sharing her pregnancy and birthing experiences in this episode. She tells all about her at-home birth, the challenges she faced, and funny moments that stood out to her.

We appreciate Sierra for sharing her wonderful stories with us. The purpose of this series is to provide a space for birthing families to share their experiences to help other birthing families become informed about the ways pregnancy and birthing can happen.

Disclaimer: We’d like to let our audience know that these birthing stories include real people with real stories and may include topics on traumatic pregnancy and birthing experiences leading to loss of life, miscarriage, depression, suicide, and grief. If you are listening, please take breaks as needed. If these topics are too much for you to handle, please join us again for our next episode and take care of yourself in the meantime.

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Facebook: @Navajo Maternal and Child Health Project at Diné College

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Please email us if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions: navajomchproject@dinecollege.edu

This podcast was sponsored by the Arizona Department of Health Services through federal funding from the Health Resources & Services Administration, with support from the Navajo Native American Research Centers for Health (NARCH) Partnership between Diné College and Northern Arizona University through federal funding from the National Institute of Health’s National Institute of General Medical Sciences, award number S06GM142121. The views expressed are the sole responsibility of the program staff and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Arizona Department of Health Services or the United States Government.

Transcript

Introduction
Ya'at'eeh. Welcome to the MCH podcast where we discuss maternal and child health topics and provide strategies for improving the health of Navajo families. Amá dóó áłchíní ats’íís baa áháyá baa yadelti (Translation: We will be talking about the health of mothers and children).

DeeDee James
Ya’at’eeh. I am your co-host DeeDee James. Todich’ii’nii nishłį, Kinyaa’aa’nii bashichiin and  Kinłich’ii’nii  dashichei and Ta’neeszahnii dashinali. Ákót’éego diné asdzáán nishłį́. Tse’dijoli denashaa. Kinłanídi kééhasht’į́. Hi, everybody. I’m originally from Promise Rock, AZ, which is a small area South of Monument Valley, UT, but I currently live in Flagstaff and work at Northern Arizona University as a research coordinator of the Navajo Maternal and Child Health Project.

Lexa Ingram
Hello, I’m your co-host Alexandrea Ingram but I prefer to go by Lexa. I was born and raised in Phoenix, Arizona, however I currently reside in Flagstaff, Arizona. I graduated this May from Northern Arizona University (NAU) with a Bachelor of Science in Health Sciences: Public Health and minors in Biology and Psychology. I am grateful to work at the Navajo Maternal and Child Health Project and be a part of this episode today. 

This episode is a continuation of a new series about pregnancy and birthing experiences. The purpose of these episodes are to provide a space for birthing families to share their stories in the hopes that it will help other birthing families to be informed about ways that pregnancy and birthing occurs. Before we begin, we’d like to let our audience know that these birthing stories include real people with real stories and may include topics on traumatic pregnancy and birthing experiences leading to loss of life, miscarriage, depression, suicide, and grief. If you are listening, please take breaks as needed. If these topics are too much for you to handle, please join us again for our next episode and take care of yourself in the meantime.

Today, We are joined by Sierra Sanchez. Sierra can you please introduce yourself?

Sierra Sanchez
Hi, I'm Sierra. I'm a new mom of a five month old little boy. I just started out as a doula because of my birth experience and also got trained as a lactation counselor.

DeeDee James
Awesome, and where are you from Sierra?

Sierra Sanchez
I'm from Washington. So I'm from the Spokane Reservation in Washington.

DeeDee James
Oh, okay.

Sierra Sanchez
But I'm a descendant of the Coeur D'Alene tribe.

DeeDee James
Oh okay, I see. Okay, awesome. Well, it's nice, you know, having another native on the podcast because we recently only had a lot of birthing experiences or stories from other Navajo individuals. So it's really going to be interesting to hear from another tribe's perspective and their birthing experience. So that's awesome. I’m so happy to have you on the podcast.

Sierra Sanchez
Thank you.

DeeDee James
Yeah. So and you know, just taking the time out of today and, you know, rescheduling that whole thing. So thank you for that.

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah, not a problem. 

DeeDee James
Awesome. Now I guess we can just like, move forward and ask you to share your pregnancy journey, your birthing story. 

Sierra Sanchez
Okay. So I found out I was pregnant really early on, like, three weeks in, like, as soon as you could know you're pregnant and went to a traditional, like, the stereotypical Western medicine clinic for seven and a half months. And I wasn't super happy with all of the midwives there, but I didn't even think that I could do anything different for my birth. I figured, like, that's just what you do. You go to the doctor and you go to the hospital and then you go home with your baby if nothing's wrong. Like, I wasn't really aware that I had options in about seven months and I was reading a book about pregnancy and getting ready to have a baby. And I read a section about homebirth and private practice midwives and the difference between those and birth centers and hospital births with a nurse midwife or an OB. And that's when I realized, like duh, my grandma gave birth at home. The last two generations give birth at home, in cars, or whatever. They didn't do it like quote unquote “normal way,” which is so funny because I feel like birthing at home was the most normal.

So after reading my book and being a little upset about my appointments, I was pretty dissatisfied because all of my prenatals felt like, get in, take your vitals and get out. Like if you don't have questions, then we don't need to tell you anything. So after reading my book and hearing about that, I was really quick to go out and contact every single midwife in the Spokane and Coeur D'Alene area. Theres probably like 20 emails I sent out trying to figure out if anybody had availability. Only two women did and only one of them was in my price range. So I got really, really lucky and she was fantastic. I absolutely loved my experience, so I swapped care at seven and a half months. We got to have a home birth. My midwife was very, very nice and supportive and she really gave me time and like all of the wisdom that I needed, she was very much on the same page of me. Like we had similar beliefs that we can trust our bodies as long as there's no underlying conditions or anything. We can just trust our body and let it do what it needs to do. And she allowed me the time and the space to do that when the time came.

When the time did come, it was very quick. I went a little bit over 40 weeks, only a few days. I took a midwives brew, which is a castor oil concoction and, you know, some birth supplies for a home birth you have to provide yourself. So I was tasked with getting a hose, having wash clothes and towels and some olive oil, little things like that. I bought the only hose that Home Depot had for sale, and it ended up being a sprinkler hose. So it was just like, it was like cheese dude. Like, there was holes all over this hose and I didn't even know it. And so when we're about to give birth, like, my kitchen is flooding as they’re trying to fill the birth pool. And I was like “what's going on? Why is the house broke? It's brand new.” And my boyfriend knew, he knew, he knew what those were. I didn't know those existed. He’s like, don't tell her until after. So they’re sitting there mopping up the kitchen, trying to fill up the pool for me while I'm laboring. And I'm just like in the back of my head all I can think is like, just shut off the water. Just use pots, like, don't flood the kitchen. But they were like, I don't know. They were so worried to anger me. They just kept using the hose.

DeeDee James
Oh my god.

Sierra Sanchez
Okay, whatever. But yeah, I had, I have a pretty high pain tolerance. So when I first got contractions, I didn't think they were contractions. I thought it was just like baby moving because it just felt like pressure. It just felt like he was running out of room in there and it was like just coming and going. So I thought that was just him moving and pushing on me. So my midwife told me, you know, take a nap. When you wake up and you can't sleep anymore, call me. And so we did.

I woke up about 3 hours later from a contraction, like that was my alarm clock. And from that moment when I woke up, he was out within 6 hours. It was a pretty quick birth. So my, my midwife, my doula were on their way immediately when I woke up from my nap. I labored, I walked. I immediately, like, stripped down, put on a diaper and a swim top. I was laboring around my house for a while. Once the pool situation was figured out and it was filled up, I got in the pool and I mean, jeez, he's five months old, a little over five months old now. The further away you get, the harder it is to remember details. But, I got in the pool and I just labored in there for a while. Like it felt like forever. I looked up and everyone is just, like, looking at me. There's like, this one moment that like I will not forget is just being in the pool feeling like I'm laboring for like 20 hours. And I look up and everyone is just like so solemn and just like looking back at me and I'm so sorry, I'm taking so long, forgive me for giving birth. Afterwards they told me it was really quick and they were all impressed. But like in the moment, just watching them all watch me felt so wrong, it felt so awkward.

I'm sorry. I'm kind of all over the place. But, it's just like when I started talking about like, Oh, yeah, and I remember that was funny too. And then this happened and, and the whole time I have like, this crazy, like, mixed playlist going in with some, like, rap music. Like, I gave birth to WAP, there was some other questionable choices in there. And my midwife cracked up afterwards when I told her some of the things that were like being sung in the background that they weren't even noticing. It was very, an interesting playlist.

Yeah, I labored in the pool and I was only pushing for, I only pushed for 47 minutes I think; 47 or 57 minutes, it was under an hour. And at the very end, like the quote unquote “welcoming ring” is what my training calls it, the but the ring of fire like when he's crowning I felt, I didn't feel burning, I felt like a stinging like I felt like like my vagina to my urethra, like from my vagina to my pee-hole, I felt like the front part there was the ripping, not the back part, you know. Like I ended up with a minor, a very minor tear, but on my perineum. But it felt like it was ripping the other way was terrible. And there was, and so he crowned, I pushed. He crowned like two times and I was like I don't wanna, I need more time. I need to stretch. Like, my midwife saw that I was struggling with that very last bit and she knew he was right there, like his head was starting to poke out. And so she has me get up and she's like, “Here, stand up, stand up.” We got me up. She's like, “Put your leg on the side of the pool.” And here I'm thinking, I'm afraid I'm going to, like, step on it and it's going to squish and the water is going to go everywhere. Like it was fine. I put my leg up and I pushed that last time and powered through and he just came out like I put my leg up and he came out in like 5 seconds. It was, it was funny because my boyfriend told me like, “I'm not going to catch him. I don't know. I can't.” I'm like, I've got a weak stomach. And he end up, she was like, “Bryan, come here, come here!” And he comes right over like, not sure what's going on. And I put my leg up and she was like, “Put your hands out!” And he caught the baby and then he ended up cutting the umbilical cord. It was so awesome because, like, I was kind of starting to catch the baby myself, but it came so fast, like I, it was not happening. I would have dropped him. So my boyfriend caught him and like, yeah, it was great.

I got to lay back down in the pool with him and I got a shot of Pitocin afterwards because I bled a little bit too much. My placenta took like the maximum amount of time they were comfortable with to come out.

DeeDee James
Wow.

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah, we did that. We did, we had a scarf, and my midwife had put it around her hips for me to grab on to and pull while I was pushing, and that was awesome. I forgot to mention that. But yeah, no, it was overall, I had a really great birth. Nothing really went wrong per say and it was pretty quick. The midwife is telling me like the second birth is usually twice the length of the first one. When I told her I wanted her to be my midwife again, well, she lives like an hour away. She said, “You better call me when you have your very first contraction or you’re catching that baby yourself.” Yup. So that's pretty much how it went. They tucked us into bed and we all just kind of hung out for a while after that.

I did like, I pushed myself too hard the very next day. The very next like week I was like, Oh, I feel fine. And started doing housework and cleaning because I felt bad about all the dishes and stuff piling up, like in the following days. And I started bleeding a lot. Like, instead of my bleeding going down, it started getting worse. And so I learned my lesson there. That was not fun. Postpartum is not fun. The birth was great. Postpartum was not fun.

DeeDee James
Yeah. No, that's really interesting and like, brave to have, to switch from like a Western going into the clinic or the hospital getting checkups and things like that and totally doing like a 360 switching to a home birth after seven and a half months. 

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah, it was pretty last minute.

DeeDee James
Yeah. And, you know, was, was there any like hesitation from, you know, like your, your support circle of like, you know, why are you like going to be changing this now?

Sierra Sanchez
Not so much about the timing, but definitely my because I didn't even want to give my family the chance to criticize or make me self doubt or anything, because I knew that homebirth was what I wanted. Like, I knew that was what was right for me and especially being a low risk pregnancy. I even talked to my midwife into swapping an extra birth assistant for a doula so that it was just her and her sister and my doula. So I didn't really tell anyone what my plans were until it was basically time to give birth. The only one that was there to question me really was my boyfriend, and his main concern was not the timing of it, but just the the home birth itself. He is Caucasian, and so he's definitely like he wanted the safeguard of having the hospital and doctors around in case anything went wrong. But we just bought our house a month before the baby came and we only live 5 minutes from the hospital, so I kind of use that as like a rebuttal. Like, well, if anything does go wrong, we're really close, but it's really unlikely that that'll be necessary just because of my, from my pregnancies going in. And I made sure that he came to the prenatal and met the midwife and we talked about how everything will hopefully go down, which is what happened and he gained a lot of confidence, especially talking firsthand to the midwife.

DeeDee James
I know you mentioned that, you know, like when you were going into the hospital for your prenatal visits, that there wasn't really like a connection or bond in that way. And so what kind of I guess, like could you elaborate a little bit more of like what challenges you had and like in that whole aspect of going into the hospital, getting your checkups this way?

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah. So I didn't go into the hospital. I went to a clinic that had a women's health center, so they had five midwives. And you can choose and only see one. You can choose to see a couple or you can see them all. It doesn't matter. Whoever is on call when you go into labor is who you're going to get. And I didn't really like that aspect of it. I wanted to know who was going to be helping me birth my baby so that was the first issue I had. Well, then I thought, well, I'll just meet all the midwives and see if I like them all it's not a big deal. I met them all and two of them I was not fond of. One of them I know for a fact I would not let it touch my child; I did not have a good experience with her at all. And so running into that issue. And then on top of that, just all of my appointments were so short, there was no connection, there was no real like education happening or preparation. It was just them checking on me and baby to make sure that we're healthy and alive. And, and then that was pretty much it. If I didn't have a specific question, then they didn't even have information for me per se. They just say, okay, well, if you have any, give us a call and send me off. So like my actual appointments, like I would be in a waiting room for, I don't know, five, 10 minutes, whatever, and then go sit in the room and get my vitals taken. And, and then my actual appointment, like time with the midwives, was like five, ten minutes, and that was like it. They would just send me out and say, okay, well, if you have questions, let us know like, or bring them next time. And it's so hard to know what you don't know, but I wanted more information, I wanted more knowledge. Like I wanted to know what to expect, like what my body was going through. So I was doing a lot of research on my own and relying on myself. And that's like when I started reading, when I read that book and realized there was like a huge difference in the way the prenatals are between private care and like, clinical practice.

Yeah, after I switched, I got like a full hour with my midwife at every appointment and it was fantastic. And she would just feed me information because I told her I was like, I don't know what I don't know. And I really, I want to feel more confident and prepared because right now I feel like I'm being kept in the dark, like I don't have any idea what to expect. I just like, I just know what Hollywood shows and I know that's not accurate. So it was like a night and day difference. I went from seeing my midwife like five or 10 minutes and not getting any real information to having a full hour with my midwife and just sitting and talking about different possibilities and things that she's looking at in me and just like what, what's normal and what's not. What I can expect for my specific situation. Like, it was fantastic. I definitely preferred private practice just because of because, just because my situation allowed it and because of the woman that I got as my provider that I was able to hire. Yeah, it was great.

DeeDee James
Yeah, that's awesome, and that just shows, you know, like the advocacy that you had to do for yourself.


Sierra Sanchez
Yeah.

DeeDee James
Once you notice, you know, like they weren't really providing in-depth information because pregnancy is such a huge change in your life and your, your lifestyle. And like from then on, it's just going to be so different. And, you know, I really think that's really cool for you to, like, take the initiative to learn more about it and advocate for yourself and change like your whole, like your  prenatal care and your provider and things like that. Especially, you know, for your mental health. That's like a huge change and it's going to take a lot on, you know, how things are going to be different and how you have to think through all these different things. And so when you changed from the clinical setting to like a private practice with your midwife, was she able to give you that information about how, you know, like your mental health care and that aspect of it?

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah, so, well, I guess let me ask you to elaborate a little more. Like during, are you speaking about during pregnancy the mental health aspect of care or like just preparing me and talking to me about like postpartum mental health?

DeeDee James
I would probably say like both. I mean, I feel like there's maybe two different sides of it, like during pregnancy and then postpartum.

Sierra Sanchez
Okay. Yeah. I'd say during pregnancy, my private midwife definitely checked in on me and would ask how we're doing and like she’d did it in a kind of subtle way. She would ask how we're doing, what kind of things we're dealing with, or that I was dealing with. If there was any areas where we needed help, like at the clinic they definitely have their questionnaires. They have to do or like specific questions they'll ask, and they're pretty blunt and it's, it makes it a little bit harder in my opinion. I know for some people they need to be asked like X amount of times before they finally open up or whatever. For me personally, I don't like the bluntness. I don't like the well, not so much blunt, but the formality at the clinic where they're like, Are you feeling depressed? And like, well, I know that's bad, so if I was, I probably wouldn't tell you because you're a doctor and I don't trust you. Like I don’t want that on my record, I don't want you to just ask me and then put it on there, and then I'm going to get, like, prescribe something or like, or you guys are going to worry about my child. I don't want to put myself in that position. So I really appreciated moving to the private practice. It felt like everything was more intimate and personal. And so not only was my care like taking that hour just to get to know each other and really have an understanding and respect for each other, I was also getting, I was getting that mental health care. I was getting those questions, but they were delivered in such a nonchalant like it's such a more authentic delivery. It was really refreshing because I didn't feel like I was being asked like a clinical question just to see if I had a diagnosis. It was more like, how are you really? Like, can I, is there anything I can do for you? Like, are you struggling with anything? I want to make sure you're healthy and you're going into this and you're like the best version of yourself. Or, you know, it was really like it felt more like talking to a friend, which for me was fantastic because I don't like opening up to doctors or anything. I don't like just checking the box. I very much preferred that, like that genuine care of, hey, I care about how you're doing and it matters to me and it's important for your health. So I'm just checking in with you, like, how are you feeling? Tell me what's going on in your life. We have like, we can get through this together. I'm here to help you. It wasn't just, like I didn't feel like if I told my midwife, my private midwife, I didn't feel like if I told her I'm feeling pretty down lately or I'm feeling, like, sad, I'm feeling depressed or something, that like, she was going to turn me in, you know?

DeeDee James
Yeah. And yeah. I think that's really like a huge important part of it; reassurance. 

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah. And the trust, it's, it's so hard to open up about those things that make you so vulnerable and open the door to, like, other possibilities of well, how severe is it? Do we need to worry about your kid? And what's your home life like? And it's a Pandora's box, and so it's one of those things where if you don't have the trust built, if you don't trust the person asking you like you're never going to get an honest answer because it's so, so personal and so significant in your own life. Like, it could really mess things up,

DeeDee James
Exactly.

Sierra Sanchez
But it can also like fix a lot of things too if you tell someone. It's such…yeah.

DeeDee James
Yeah. And that's so awesome that you found that person and it really like, made your pregnancy and your whole labor and delivery that much easier because you're connected and you felt like you were heard. And I think that just makes all the difference really. And like, you know, pregnancy journeys. 

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah, absolutely. And I didn’t have a doula until, I didn't meet my doula until a few weeks before I was giving birth, because I, like I said, I talked to my midwife into dropping the extra assistant in lieu of a doula. Yeah. So she found my doula for me at like what, eight, eight and a half months. So I got my doula really late too. So like all my advocacy, all of my like, I don't know, just all of my stuff was on me up to that point. She helped out at the birth, which was really nice. I remember her holding a fan in my face, and I don't…that's like the only thing I really remember her doing. But it was like such a big moment for me because it was, I was just like in my head in the heat of the moment. And then she put that fan on my face and like the clouds open, like the sea parted, I saw the hand of the creator. It was like, oh man, it helped a lot.

Lexa Ingram
I think it's great that you were able to get a doula at the last minute. And I know earlier you mentioned that you became a doula yourself. So I was wondering if you could go into the process of what really inspired to become a doula and why you wanted to practice. 

Sierra Sanchez
So I wanted to become a doula because of my experience, and I wasn't quite sure, like, I'm still not quite sure if I want to become a midwife ever. Just because that's like a lot more technical and medical, that’s the more medical side of things, I'm really more interested in the clients, the parents, the mothers, because like for me and my family, it was really hard to throw all that together and afford a midwife. And we were lucky enough that our doula was provided to us free of charge, which was really, we're really, really grateful for and we're really lucky that anyone even had the availability to, to help us. But just the overall experience I had of those women taking care of me and like making sure that I was, that everything went smoothly, that I felt that I had the information I needed. My doula was pretty good, Like we met really late, like I said, but she didn't check in with me and say, Hey, you know, if you want more information on anything, you don't feel like Googling it, whatever, I'll look research and things for you, just let me know. Which was super cool. I, it was really just the overall experience. I left my birth, like I walked away from it feeling so refreshed and reassured in myself and in like, quote unquote, “the system.” Because we have these different avenues in our system of care that people don't really realize. So I walked away from it just feeling so positive that I told myself, I want to help people have that same experience. Like, I think every mother deserves to have that feeling when they walk away from their birth. I think, yeah, I just feel like everyone deserves that. And so I started looking into training and my boyfriend was really supportive and he said, while you're on maternity leave, your last job wasn't great. They kind of lied to me about the position, but different story. He was like, don't go back. Just when you go back to work, just start your business. And I was like, okay, here we go. Diving in.

DeeDee James
That’s so awesome to have that kind of support. And, you know, realizing that job is just not good for you mentally. And that's awesome to hear that, you know, he's like, no, you don't need to go to that place, I got, I can support us and whatever you want to do, that I'm going to support you in that way too. So that's so awesome to hear that you have that kind of support, especially from your partner.

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah, he's, he's pretty great. He’s, it was it took a while to convince him that homebirth was going to be fine. He is a little bit wearisome, but overall, he's like his overall role, really we're just here to support each other, you know like that's what a relationship is. It shouldn't be about control or anything like that or like it shouldn't be more about one person or the other. So like, I still work, but I work part-time now at a lawn care company just to bring in some income while I'm starting my business. 

DeeDee James
That’s awesome. And I know you kind of mentioned, you know, like you switching, but like was did you have like a birthing plan or like how did you kind of prepare for baby, you know, to come into like, into this life? 

Sierra Sanchez
I found out about a birth plan also in my book. And so I look that up online and did my own research, and I made my own birth plan. I researched all of the vaccines and whatnot and the, the things that are done like immediately after birth and figured out what I was comfortable with and what I wasn't. And yeah, so that was just like a lot of it was just research on my part. I was really big on knowing all my options. So like any, pretty much anything that came across my mind, I was like, oh, I'm going to research that. I want to know what I can do.

DeeDee James
Yeah, that's so awesome. And I know you kind of mentioned the beginning about like the whole hose and like the sprinkler thing.

Sierra Sanchez
Oh, my gosh, yeah.

DeeDee James
But, like, were there any other moments like that were funny or kind of like, stood out to, you?

Sierra Sanchez
Gosh. No, I don't know. The hose was pretty embarrassing because I was the one who bought it and I didn't know sprinkler hoses were even a thing, I didn’t know they existed. Yeah. When I finally gave birth and she had me put my leg up, I was, like, legitimately in a Captain Morgan pose. So that was interesting. I know that moment with the fan stood out to me, too, just because of the like that one little thing made all the difference in my, like, my demeanor and my outlook in the moment. So, like, if you see a lady just like sweating and putting her head down, whatever, like give that women fan, like it will completely change the mood.

DeeDee James
Oh my gosh, that’s funny.

Sierra Sanchez
That's like, yeah, I think that's really all.

DeeDee James
Wow. Yeah. Well, now that your baby's five months, I think you said, how has that experience been? And like, what kind of advice do you have for new parents? 

Sierra Sanchez
Oh, my gosh. The postpartum experience was not as easy as birth. You know, a lot of issues with nursing and we're still working on them. And it's trying to manage, you know, child care work schedule and still trying to now that he's older and I've been traveling and stuff like, you know, taking him out of the house, just trying to find time for friends and other things because like I like to do archery. So his first outing was actually at a month old, he went to an archery shoot with me.

Biggest piece of advice would probably just to be like, listen to your intuition. If you feel like something's wrong, you're probably right. I know that there's a lot to be said just for a mom anxiety or mom guilt, but in the end, like, you know, your body and your body knows your baby better than anyone else could, so definitely listen to it.

That's how I knew like something was wrong with our feeding. He was constantly crying and at the breast, and I, you know, they say, oh, they have small tummies, they eat a lot, cluster feeding, like you won't really see your milk or anything. It'll be colostrum for a couple of days, blah, blah, blah. And with the amount of crying and like fussiness that was happening, I knew like I knew something was wrong. Everyone else was like, no, your fine, give it another, you know, give it a couple more days, work on your latch. Cause like, the latch wasn't good either, but something just wasn't sitting right with me. And so we went, I went and got a pump and I tried pumping and I was bone dry. So my baby had been starving for two, almost three days by the time that that had come to light. So that was a huge thing for me where I was like, I knew it, I knew it, and now I feel like crap because my baby's been starving and just yeah. So like, just listen to your body. If you feel like something's wrong, you know, better safe than sorry.

DeeDee James
Definitely. And I feel like the whole breastfeeding journey in itself is just something totally different. And I know you mentioned, you know…

Sierra Sanchez
It’s not a cakewalk. Like, it's natural, but it doesn't mean it's easy.

DeeDee James
Yeah exactly. And like, were you, was your midwife or like your doula, I guess did they have any, were they supportive in like trying to help you breastfeed and are they still I know you're still trying to, you know, continue like breastfeeding, but I don't know, I just kind of, I guess, elaborate a little bit more of how your breastfeeding journey has been this far. Because I know from like I mean, I don't have any children, so, you know, just like from experiences from like my sister and like friends and things, I know how difficult it is to breastfeed. And even though they say, you know, like breast, breast is best, you know, it's like it's not that easy. So I guess, like, how has that been for you?

Sierra Sanchez
It's been a roller coaster. We cried together quite a lot. So I started out bone dry. Once I figured that out, I did a cluster feed with the pump. My baby was supplemented with donor milk at that time. And then I did my cluster feed and woke up the next morning with mature milk. I completely skipped colostrum. So I woke up the next morning and gorged with mature milk and was able to feed him myself for the most part, like my supply wasn't quite where it should have been. So he did still get supplemented a little bit, but we ran out of donor milk, so he ended up getting supplemented formula and his latch was terrible. So even though I was producing milk and I was trying to breastfeed and I wanted to do that, there was a lot of times where I can only feed him for a couple minutes just because of how, how much it hurt. If it hurts, it's not right, okay? Something's wrong, that’s not a good latch. We learned that, Lexa was there. But, it was just like, it's so like, frustrating to think about because you want to feed them so bad and you're like, I'm the mom, I should, you know, support them. I should be the one providing for them and nourishing them. But like in reality, sometimes that's just not realistic. I definitely needed help with our latch at that point, and I unfortunately, I didn't really get what I was looking for. And I saw like three different lactation counselors, and I think one of them was actually a consultant, so an IBCLC. And that didn't help much either, because of course, when someone else is watching, everything goes fine. So it was like, it was really up and down because we'd have moments where it was going really good and I felt good about everything. But then, like most of the time when we're at home, like I was just crying and not wanting to finish feeds because, because of the pain and because I was like cracked and I was sore. And early in the first month I was bleeding, scabbing and that was terrible. But over time it's gotten better. His latch still isn't perfect. It still hurts sometimes, but in general, like I can feed him a full feed and not have to worry about it so much. But my milk supply is definitely not where it should be just because of things like that.

DeeDee James
I know you attended the Indigenous peer counseling lactation counselor session at Diné College. 

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah!

DeeDee James
In what ways did that or did it help you and in what ways did it help you? 

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah, it did help. There's some stuff that I kind of knew because, like I said, I've been seeing counselors and I've kind of been working on this for a while, but it definitely helped me with the actual latch because, you know, a lot of people only tell you drag the nipple from the nose to the mouth and then he'll latch on like it's reflex, whatever. But then you, like I went to the training and learned like that reflex is to make them open their mouths, but you need them to open wide because otherwise your nipple feeding and that's what causes all that damage. And you shouldn't be nipple feeding, you should be breastfeeding, like their mouths should be wide and you should have most of your areola in their mouth also, Like it shouldn't be like, it shouldn't be just your nipple or close to that, it should be more. Your nipple is just where the milk comes out, that's not what they should be sucking on. And so that definitely helped me a lot coming home. It doesn't hurt as much. He still, oh, and we also found out about tongue ties and a little bit more about lip ties. And I realized after going over those sections, like my baby has a tongue tie, I’m pretty sure my baby has a lip tie. And I took him back to a different IBCLC so it's much more helpful this time, especially with me knowing more about what I'm dealing with. I think the training is really helpful for anyone, even just like a regular mom. I think people should be able to know themselves in that way and their babies and help, it really helps when you're communicating with a professional to know what you're dealing with so that they can understand and diagnosed correctly and give you the proper support that you need. But anyways, the, that IBCLC that I most recently saw after returning from training. She was fantastic and she gave me just some suggestions for getting my supply back up. And she did an actual examination and confirmed he does, he did have a tongue and a lip tie, a very severe, severe lip tied on top like he couldn't roll his lip out, which I knew he wasn't. I watched him feed. I just thought that was like his own choice. It was not. He had a very severe lip tie on top that went all the way down the front of his gums so he could not move this top lip. And then his tongue tie wasn't that bad, but it was significant enough that they felt that cutting it would make a significant difference in his feeding as well. So we just got that done. I want to say a week ago now, maybe less than two weeks ago, somewhere between a week and two weeks. And so we've been working on healing and trying to correct his latch and get him to make sure he's opening wide enough when he latches. 

DeeDee James
Aww, that’s so cute. I mean, just hearing like your story and how it's definitely a learning experience, like, yeah. 

Sierra Sanchez
It is and they say like however long it takes you to correct a tongue and lip tie, like that's how long it's going to take you to correct the latch afterwards. So we, we didn't get any of that stuff really like diagnosed or fixed until five months. And so now it's going to take probably five more months. He will be about a year old when we finally get everything in you know, peak condition, it's still like we're, we're only halfway through the journey. Pretty crazy.

DeeDee James
Yeah. Yeah. But, definitely a learning experience for sure.

Sierra Sanchez
Oh yeah, and it should all be, you know, downhill from here, like uphill, I don't know how to say that; it should be easy. It should be easier from here on out.

DeeDee James
Yeah, definitely. And I guess just one kind of fun question that we have is like, how did you choose your son's name? And I feel like it's a, there's always like a back story to how people get their names. But, you know, I, for me personally I don't even know my story behind my actual name, but that's another thing. Anyways.

Sierra Sanchez
I asked my mom about mine before and she told me, I just don't remember. I do remember though she, it was going to be spelled Cierra with a “C,” but she started it with an “S” because my dad's name is Samuel with an “S” like, not that spelled either way. She gave me the “S”  just to kind of follow suit with my dad. But my son, I don't really like talking about this because I completely fudged up when I, we had a lot of issues agreeing on a name, so the whole name thing was super difficult for us. We already had a girl's name picked out. It was Gwen. It was easy, it was done, but we had a boy. So we argued over the name for months and months and months and finally, like, agreed on a name. I don't want to say it. It'll mess up my brain. It triggers me.

We've finally agreed on a name. And, and so I got excited because, you know, hormones, pregnancy, blah, blah, blah. And so I was like, come to the baby shower. You might figure out his name dah, dah, dah. Like, you know, teasers and stuff. And then at the baby shower, I had like all of his, you know, ultrasound pictures and a whole table set out, and my baby pictures and dad's baby pictures. And then like the little letter board with the name we had chosen. And it just… by the time I gave birth, I looked at his dad and I said, “So do you want to name him Byron?” And his dad's name is Byron. And he apparently thought I was joking because that was not the name we agreed upon. That was one of the ones we were arguing about because I didn't want it to be Byron, blah, blah, blah, blah. The third I wanted it to be like the middle name that I chose and then a hyphenated last name. And that's the part we couldn’t agree on with it. And so he thought I was joking and he said “No,” which if I'm joking, then just say yes anyways. Why would he even say no? I don’t understand.

But so he named him the unspoken name. And immediately afterwards I was like, I don't feel like it's right. I dont, and this is another thing; okay, listen to your dang gut ladies! It didn't feel right. And the longer, the he was around, like I never called him by his name. I couldn't. It felt wrong. And so like a couple of weeks in, I was like, hey, what do you think about changing his name? It doesn't, do you feel like, do you feel like it fits? You know, I just kept questioning it and I kept questioning and questioning and asking Byron about it for I think it was about we were finally like two months in and I was just like breaking down, crying, just talking about it. I was like, I still haven't called him his name because it doesn't, it's not him, you know, it doesn't feel right. It's a name yeah, but it doesn’t, it's just not and it's okay, it's not a bad name, but it's not the right name. And this had happened like three times at this point. And so finally he was like, okay, I'll look into it and see what we have to do to change it legally, which we still are changing it legally. It's so expensive. We haven't been able to complete that process yet. But, instead of on said name, it is now Byron Prinencel Olsen-Sanchez, which I'm very happy with. 

DeeDee James
That's awesome and I apologize if it triggered you. I didn’t I mean too.

Sierra Sanchez
No, it's okay. It's okay because you guys don't know the name and so the name shall remain unspoken. The worst part is when I have to go to the doctor. And so they still have his legal name. And every time they say it, I just cringe. I'm like, no, no. But that will be, you know, we'll get that fixed here soon; before he is a year old for sure. The only name he's going to know is Byron, that’s fine.

DeeDee James
Yeah, and then when he gets older, you guys will be telling him this story. 

Sierra Sanchez
Heck no, he'll never know. I feel like we do not speak those, that word.

DeeDee James
Oh my gosh, that is so funny.

Sierra Sanchez
Like how they don’t say “Voldemort.”

DeeDee James
Oh my god. Well, Sierra, thank you. You know, sharing, opening up to us. I mean, we're definitely strangers to you, but it's so awesome, you know, to hear these kinds of stories, especially when we've heard, like, feedback from others who have, you know, tuned into this podcast about hearing other people's birth stories has really helped them and know that, like, you know, they're not alone. They're not, have not, alone in the situation that they're in or, you know, it just kind of alleviates those like mom’s guilt that you said or anything like that. So, you know, sharing your story on our podcast and our platform is going to be really awesome to share just because I feel like it's definitely going to, you know, resonate with someone else that may be experiencing the same thing. So thank you again for taking the time today to you know, share your story with us, opening up, being vulnerable. So, you know, thank you. 

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for having me.

DeeDee James
Yeah. Lexa, do you have any questions or anything?

Lexa Ingram
I just want to thank you as well for coming on and sharing your story and your life journey of trying to figure out everything and stressing the importance of really trusting your gut. And don't doubt yourself because you know better about yourself than anyone else. So make sure to speak up and seek anything you need to do to make sure you're okay and your family's okay as well. 

DeeDee James
Mm. Exactly. That is nicely put, Lexa.

Lexa Ingram
Thank you.

DeeDee James
But, yeah, you know, that's a really awesome experience. I feel like talking about it from, you know, sharing it with people that are not from a neutral perspective, I guess is really, I think, helpful to not only us and maybe to you to hear it out loud, to share your story. But yeah, like, you know, I just want to say thank you again. And also, you know, I just want to wish like the best for you and your family. And it seems like you're very, very knowledgeable in what you're doing. And so that's really like awesome to hear, especially, you know, from hearing it from, you know, I mentioned the beginning, like from a different indigenous perspective, that's not Navajo and like an entirely different tribe. So that's really cool to hear. And I'm so glad that, you know, you're interested in like reaching out and be part of our podcast. So yeah.

Sierra Sanchez
Yeah. Thank you, guys. I hope that like more stories like this come out where there's more positive outcomes because I know that you guys are doing a lot. There's a lot of programs in your community specifically, but also just in the native community to help facilitate those positive outcomes. So hopefully we hear more positive stories. 

DeeDee James
Definitely. Awesome. Well yay!

Sierra Sanchez
It was great talking to you guys.

Outro
Ahe’hee. Thanks for listening to the MCH Podcast. For more information about the Navajo MCH Project, please visit us on Facebook at the Navajo Maternal and Child Health Project at Diné College.